Arvo Pärt
 

I do really miss progressive classical music. The early fusion of rock and classic is there (The Nice) and i think i saw symphonies of Mozart.

To start filling the gap i'd like to see something of the estonian composer Arvo Pärt. The albums 'Tabula Rasa' and 'Te Deum' are a perfect introduction to his work. It's not easy, not electrical but it challenges all your senses.

Following a sticky thread:
If you like King Crimson unplugged try Arvo Pärt...

Re: Arvo Pärt
 

The gap doesn't need filling. No more classical on a prog rock station.

maybe
 

the opinions of yesspaz do not necessarily reflect the opinions of the station managment. (Though they often overlap.)

Can you point me to sound clips or something? We won't be adding lots of classical music (don't worry Spaz), but if there's enough interest there, I would consider it...

I do and don't agree with you, O the wise. And maybe Arvo Part is too much classical and not enough rock. It depends on how you look at the term progressive. In my opinion, the playlist has lots of rock that is hardly progressive and almost no progressive music that is not rock (apart from a few keyboard wizards). Thats the main reason for suggesting A.P.

But almost als listeners have experienced the unsatisfying discussions about wat progrock is and isn't. I dont want to start one again. The progdirJim decides and doing a great job so far.

Just try to be kinder with the reply next time. This newbee almost took off to listen to his own great collection of progressive (rock)music. ;)

Jim: on amazon are a few clips.

greetz

It's not the term progressive so much as the combination of the terms progressive and rock. Arvo Pärt might be the most progressive classical music ever, but if it doesn't fall somehow under "rock" I don't want to see it here. And yes, I don't necessarily reflect the opinions of the station managment.

Sorry, I didn't mean to be intentionally rude, but I get short when we rehash old ground. Since you brought up the fact that you are a newbie, I'll use this as an excuse to state a simple frustration that happens at every message board on the net - newcomers bringing up new threads to topics that have been discussed a lot in the past. There are at least six threads about classical on AM already, and probably four of them were started by newbie's who immediately prefaced their post with "hey, let's look at the similarities of prog and classical" reasoning. Yes, there's a difference here with it being a particular composer suggestion, but it's the same thing over again. :o (that's a yawn)

So anyway, sorry if I pissed you off and I'm glad you're going to see Blue Man Group.

Q. the wise

So here's an idea. How about you just not reply next time a suggestion is made that reminds you of the discussion? That's what I am doing with the King Crimson thread. I personally don't like the newer Crimson, but I'm not going to rain on anyone's parade.

I know when I first joined I didn't read back to old threads. Life is about discussing the same things again and again.

I like Mr. Pocus's posts so far. Stay with us.

Thanks for the nice words R&R.

O (for old ;) ) the Wise. I do understand the frustrations of the elderly in forums. I'm one myself in different groups. Be careful not to scare the youth away, it can easily lead to an incrowd discussion of 10 people. And in the end there is nothing progressive to that.

I don't read old threads. If i would, i'd sound like the old bunch: seen it, done it...

I do like your posts and agree on most of your opinions. But i'll keep posting questions, suggestions and remarks if they are relevant to me or if i think they can be interesting for other progrock fans. This includes progclassic.

And i'm open to suggestions about crossovers between Rachmaninoff and and Deep Purple. Which band brings The Nice, ELP or Sky to a new level?

Lots of K. Schulze in the playlist. Whats your opinion: rock or not?
(correction, not in the playlist yet, just in a post of PDJim i think)

Old ;-)
 

Yesspaz isn't what most of us consider "old," unless maybe you're 12. That's ok, it's awfully difficult to tell someone's age from their typing, nickname, avatar, or broken leg.

But definitely stick around!

Here's my (unsolicited) opinion on the matter. I carry no weight here and my opinions don't always coincide with those of the station manager's. Disclaimer disclaimer. Disclaimer disclaimer disclaimer.

I think some modern progressive classical would be nice in small doses. I don't mind hearing the Mozart here every so often, but to me it doesn't seem progressive at all. Maybe it was at the time it was written (but I seem to remember otherwise - it was just very good music that fit into the style of what was being written then) but nowadays (to me) it doesn't feel progressive at all. Kronos Quartet was brought up elsewhere, and while I'm not really familiar with their work, I seem to remember them mostly doing stuff that pushes boundaries in music.

Yeah, this is all subject to personal tastes. Most art is. As if the Moon is launching an attempt to confuse the issue, Sky's version of "Toccata" is playing right now.

PS - I'm not old either. ;) :D

At least you got that last part right.

Here's an idea I've been mulling over the past few weeks. How about I start culling through the shows -- ALL OF THEM -- and start pulling songs that I don't deem progressive? You're show's a single MP3 and you have one song embedded? Oh well, there goes the show.

Think about it, Spaz.



Then how about we engage the ol' brain before we start with the keyboard, wot?



Then I'll give you the same sage advice I've been giving people with the same complaint on Usenet:

Don't post. Ignore it. Wisdom also includes knowing when to shut up, if you get my drift.



And we ALL know about the connection between excuses and arseholes.

See above.

Do I seem unduly harsh, Spaz? Coming down a little hard on you?

Remeber this next time you decide to launch into a newbie. Show them at least a miniscule portion of the patience that I've shown with you.

Got it?

Roger -Dot- Lee, I can get even less subtle if necessary

another chimin' in
 

I'm not exactly a newb, but I'm not a frequent forum reader/poster, so (in a Steve Martin voice) *excuse me* if this offends anybody.

I have a strong classical background, grew up on it, then played it. My first exposure to rock was post-Woodstock era, and I found ELP at the same time, which blew my socks off. I like rock, I like prog, but I especially love prog influenced by or derived from classical music. Or played by artists with a strong classical training. Etc... It's what spins my prop & floats my boat. So I vote for more, despite any previous threads I may or may not have read, rude slams against what I feel strongly about, shows I feel are far more rock than progressive, etc ad nauseum.

As mentioned above: "Disclaimer, IMHO, YMMV".

Re: Re: Arvo Pärt
 

You know, as I got to work, I thought that maybe I'd been a bit too harsh in my initial posting. So I went back and re-read things.

I am now convinced that I didn't go far enough.

I'd like to state to all and sundry, and especially to YOU, Spaz, that the only time that you have any say as to what is played on this station is when you request it, or currently during your own show. Any other calls of this nature are made by Progdirjim (with the occasional bit of input from me).

I'd like to take a moment to point out where it says 'currently'. I've always made it a policy to stay out of what the DJ plays on their show. I figure that we're all allegedly adult enough to be able to keep things sane and progressive.

However, recent events over the past few weeks, and especially coupled with this pustulent bit of sanctimonious hypocricy befouling the site, I've been forced to take a very, VERY hard look at the wisdom of this particular policy.

Over the next few weeks, I'm going to be monitoring your show, spaz. Any more instances of non-prog on it will force me to take drastic steps, from cancelling that particular show to cancelling your show entirely, depending on the nature of the violation, or, for that matter, my mood at the moment. And if you can't tell, it's not all sweetness and light at this time.

There are very few things I can't tolerate. Sanctimonious hypocricy is one of them. Sanctimonious hypocrisy flowing out of someone who's ass I've saved on far too many occasions is simply icing on the cake.

Consider this your warning, Spaz. I'm sure that the rest of the DJs will thank you if I have to start babysitting everyone like a kindergarten teacher.

In short, keep it prog or keep it off. I don't want to have to limit your selection to only those songs that are on the station. Don't think I won't. Don't think for a SECOND that I won't.

You seem to have appointed yourself the cop of prog in the forums. I'm just sorry that I've had to step in and show you just where you really stand. You're on thin ice. I'd suggest treading VERY lightly.

Oh, and another thing: this isn't an invitation to a debate. This is a statement of fact. Do with it what you will. Just remember that your actions WILL have ramifications.

Roger -Dot- Lee, I've got a hair trigger and I have no problem using it. Any questions?

I too am open to suggestions about crossovers. ELP, the Nice, etc. Klaus Schulze I consider under the rock umbrella. I'm not sure what the exact sub-genre would be, but it's definitely under Krautrock somwhere.


Good point. I didn't think of that. And I'm not elderly! I'm 26 :p (but I think you mean elderly and old in terms of been on this board awhile, in which case, you are correct - I'm The Ancient).

Re: Re: Re: Arvo Pärt
 

Never said otherwise.




Before you get your panties in any tighter of a wad, numerous times (and I mean numerous), I've stated that I prefer a wide definition of progressive rock, yet keeping the emphasis on "rock." Wander too far away from progressive or too far from rock, and it's not prog rock - but I'll wander farther from "progressiveness" than "rockness." I've said that often, so any bit of sanctimonious hypocricy is read into the sitiation. I've not changed a bit of my ideology. A straight rock song with a single meter change is more prog rock than any polyrhythmic-multi-metered Stravinsky symphony. I've always maintained that classical shouldn't be on AM, and I've always maintained it as a fan of the site, not as a programmer - because I am a fan of the site, not a programmer. Restating my objections to adding classical is not hypocricy, and it's not sanctimonious.



Well, I'll save you the trouble. I'm not going to be continuing BrainRock. And before you pat yourself on the back too much, I made this decision a few weeks ago, told Jim two weeks ago (and he can verify for this before some "Spaz cried himself into quitting" BS starts). I had time to do the show after the leg break knocked me out of commission, but now that I'm healed and starting an internship, plus looking for a job, the good old-fashioned "not enough time" thing comes into play. I was going to wait another week or so and make an annoucement in my forum (soon to be kaput), but this seemed an appropriate time to bring it up.


No Way!



I'll gladly admit you saved my posterior quite a few times, but again, the sanctimonious hypocrisy is BS. "Hypocrite" comes from the Greek work for the masks that classical Greek theater used - i.e. being someone you're not. I've always stated my mind and said what I thought. That hasn't changed and won't change. No hypocrisy here.


Don't penalize the other guys because you are pissed at me.



So, Mozart will be deleted then? Seriously, "Prog" is a relative term. We should discuss on the boards that type of thing, which we are doing here about classical, and Jim decides regardless what goes on or not. But no one person's definition should be the standard - not mine, and also not yours.

I've not appointed myself anything. The point of a forum is to discuss things, like what is prog. If anyone thinks classical should be added, they have just as much right to post for it as I do against it, as Moses did. And I'm no more a "cop of prog" than RickandRoll, VAXman, Thor, or any other opinionated person here. But threatening to look at shows and say "that song's not prog; show deleted," now that's being a cop of prog, and therefore, hypocrisy (even though you have the official power to do it).

And I know where I stand: a man with no power expressing an opinion, which used to okay around here.

Prog is music that contains evidence that an intelligent human being wrote and/or performed it.

That's why I find it quite easy to dislike many bands, because it's instantly clear that the aforementioned qualities do not exist.

There's plenty of Classical that would fit as a break once in a while. Try some Vaughn Williams, or even Howard Hanson (bet not too many here know that name)

i've always known that Arvo Pärt does something with people, but this is too much (for me).

hope you guys (roger lee and spaz) don't regret the words typed here.

please let me, as the starter of this thread, close it.

i'd love to see your opinions in any other thread.

h.p.

that's funny! (I think it's the umlats myself:D )

Old Sod said:

There's plenty of Classical that would fit as a break once in a while. Try some Vaughn Williams, or even Howard Hanson (bet not too many here know that name)

Bet some might (not me). How snobbish!

Ok hocus, you can have your thread back:cool:

I don't regret anything you've typed, HP. I'm going to look into that Arvo Pärt. myself and let you know what I think.

Personally I LIKE classically oriented Prog, and if it really tickles my fancy, I might pick the album up myself. And Jim has already indicated he might well give it the nod for the station. Should that happen, I'll gladly stuff and mount it and queue it up, like I've done with everything else since I took over the position of official stuffer and mounter.

And don't let my grit and gristle scare you off. I can deal with Spaz in private on this issue.

Snobbish? I was trying to be condecending not snobbish. I'll have to try harder.

Well at least spell it right.

Using a spell checker, or even double checking my posts here would necessarily invoke the following Biblical passage:


Matthew 7,6. 'Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet.

wow. that was intense.

love Pärt, dig Hanson, though I like Roy Harris and Walter Piston better. and my vocal group does a kick-ass fugue in 11/8 by Villa-Lobos.

:cool:

Heh, You're alright with me HocusPocus!

Ditto. Take prog out of the equation and I'm just against adding it here. But don't infer that I don't like classical. I've got a lot of classical in my collection. Complete organ works of Bach, lots of other Bach. Lots of Stravinsky. The aformentioned Harris. Brahms, Philip Glass, Steve Reich, Beethoven, I've even got the only opera written by Scott Joplin. I've got the complete Messiah, Israel, and lots of toher works by Handel. I've got some Vaungh-Williams, etc. You name it, I've probably got it or at least heard of it. Sibelius, R.Korsakov, ad nauseum.

Who is ad nauseum? :cool:

Bloody Nora!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

That was VERY intense and not a little unpleasant at times.

Hey Ho...........:(

He was an obscure composer from the late Rococo era who did such classics as The Thirteenth Suite for Bagpipes and Four Pigeons, and the Twenty Second Suite of Peasant Dances for Alphorn and Hurdy Gurdy.

He tended to be a bit repetitive.

Roger -Dot- Lee, Music Historian for Interesting Values of "Music"

Like KW my hair stood a little bit on end when I read this through especially DOt's salvo.

I've decided to keep my mouth shut on this. - although........

Like SPaz I have plenty of classics from the 20th century including several by Arvö Pärt !!!! But it has to be something special to be played on AM - something one off. Remember prog rock relies on classical roots.

are you sure you're not British, dot?:cool:

Dot's not British...
 

...he just drones a lot - note the refeerence to bagpipes & hurdy-gurdy, both of which rely upon steady, grating tones to deliver their voice :)

Re: Dot's not British...
 

I don't drone. I spew. Voluminously.

Now if you'll excuse me, my (ObThreadTieIn) copy of The Singing Nun just arrived from NetFlix. I've been having problems sleeping lately and I need something good, and since it's not Baseball season yet....

Roger -Dot- Lee, And it's One, Two, Three strikes you're out/licks to the center of a tootsie-pop.

daaamn...missed a good pile on!:D

H.P.- i think i know you from elsewhere..is it yesfans?
at any rate, welcome.

another suggestion spaz- if these older threads that
irritate you so much are in the archives, point the newbies
to them, revive the thread from it's former endpoint.
perhaps the newbies have some perspective/insights that you
haven't covered, eh?

i've said it before, this is generally a tough forum to
break into, and i have to blame instances like this.

back on thread...roger (no dot)~ i like hanson too...
especially that "umm bop" song...:D sorry

i'm not all that interested in "going for baroque" , but
some bartok, varese, copeland, stravinsky's firebird,
pictures at an exibition might fit...
i see the modern composers as "progressive".

p e a c e
kirk

Agree 100% kirk esp. The Varese. His piece L'Ameriques is pretty awesome especially when played in concert.

Another piece you might like to check out is Francis Poulenc's "La Voix Humaine". It's one side of a phone conversation between two lovers. You only get to hear "her" side of it but it's written in such a way that you can hear in your minds ear "his" side too. It's a real tragedy and SO sad. If you hear it I'd love to know what you think.

Not for the Moon though so don't fret chaps :D

as usual
 

Kirk waits until the dust clears and bops in with his usual brilliant insights.

Aaaaah self-control....advice I need to heed. :)

quite an erudite group we have here at the Moon...

:D

thanks k.w.- the irony is, (and fitting for this thread)
if not for zappa 's"rediscovering" varese,
few of this generation would know of him.

stockhausen had a tremendous impact on john lennon, influencing "revolution #9", "...walrus".
a bit o' trivia~ one of the sgt. pepper's cover cutouts is stockhausen.

also, arnold shoenberg came to mind after i posted.
i say "go for it" jim! if anyone can sit through "an hour of
polish prog" (apologies to "progressive shores"):D
i don't think a bit of varese will hurt anything.

the early days of college FM was basically prog oriented,
but pieces like tomita's "snowflakes are dancing",
carlos' "switched on bach", the clockwork orange stuff,
tubular bells was in the mix. it worked for me.

p/k/z

Spaz groans at the very thought of hearing symphonic music interspersed in his prog.

*shudder* -- just -- *shudder*

On the Firebird Suite, especially the Bercuse and Finale, I find that I agree with you. I'm firmly of the belief that, after hearing the finale, if your ears aren't bleeding, it wasn't loud enough (I mean the man uses ƒƒƒƒƒƒ for the final note, for pete's sake!). And we have some Copeland, as well as Pictures AND Night on Bald Mountain on the Moon already.

Roger -Dot- Lee, but HANSON? *shudder* I mean REALLY....

hey, read back... roger said he liked hanson!;)

seriously, my daughter was 13 at the time, thought
"taylor's dreeamy....
i got the musical equivolent of second hand smoke,
only worse. the lungs can heal eventually,
but those lyrics are forever burned into my brain..(sob).

there you go... anyone acts up...tell'em you're gonna
play hanson... that'll be the end of it.:D

y'know dot, you're one of the few people i know
that gets use of that "maestro" font.:p ,
.....let alone can name the final note of the firebird!

you should check out scoring/notation programs like
sibelius, finale. enter a note, it sounds via midi
on a keyboard. they also play w/ those garritan strings
i mentioned previously. i believe there's a free one included.
here's that link- www.garritan.com


k

OK...I knew I should have smelled a fish on that one. Ah well...



I gotta say I'm lucky on that score. My girls all think that they're disgusting. I'm even starting to corrupt the middle one on such goodies as LTE, Gentle Giant, IQ, etc., and the eldest on some of the mellower stuff. The thing that leaves me speechless is that the youngest seems to like Par Lindh Project. That one left me gobsmacked.



You have my sincerest condolences, Kirk. Mine think that Brittney Spears is a bimbo with "all the talent of an empty 2 liter Diet Coke Bottle". Yes, that was the middle daughter talking. She's really coming along.



That won't work. They know that I'll have to listen too.

Although I did turn on Dominique (the same MP3 that I posted earlier) and told them that if they didn't knock off the bickering that I'd not only feed that to the TV whenever it was turned on, but also the PCs and the cell phones as well.

I don't know if they thought I was joking or serious, but whatever it did, it worked, since they bucked up and flew right for the rest of that night.



I've been around a while.



Heh. F above the staff. Concert Bb4 (or is it 5?). First chair French Horn, Independence High School, 1982.

Yes, I got to play the horn solo. Yes, I did haunting very well at the time.

I've checked out Sibelius, but I can't afford it. I'd give body parts to be able to get a copy though (a real one, not one that won't save and has limitations on its usage). It's a wonderful program, even with the limitations I've had. I even managed to hack out a nice little 12 part brass choir ditty that I wasn't completely ashamed of.

Yah, I like Sibelius. I just can't afford it. :(

Roger -Dot- Lee, imagine what Mozart could have done with it!

>Sibelius

heh. Mozart didn't need it...

and would that be Stewart CopEland?...

or perhaps Aaron Copland? ;) ;) :D :D

haha- "the gutenberg press ? ...
the monks didn't need it..."

re: cop/e/land- sorry...typo. a copy of "what to listen for in music"
has a permanent place in the master bath....
meaning of course... "the toilet lid".:D

pees ;)

kirk