Sciences on Moon

[jtmckinley]

Originally Posted by VAXman

How can you discuss real science without real math?

I wish there was an easy way to put up equations without having to resort to putting them here as images.

You can certainly talk about science without writing down equations. Remember, mathematics is a human mental construct that is just a tool we use to make models that represent what we measure experimentally in nature, it doesn't mean that nature really behaves that way, in fact, even in physics like in QM or GR, it's often quite hard to come up with an interpretation of what some part of your model means physically. The beauty of the mathematical models (a.k.a. *theories*) is that one can use a model to predict what will happen in nature in some physical area that has not yet been measured and then if you're really smart or lucky you can figure out a way to go measure that and see if your theory matches your experiment. New physics (the really interesting stuff to the folks that actually do the work) occurs when the model *doesn't* fit the experiment, then you know you've discovered something new (unless you screwed up your experiment or got your math wrong ).

Also many branches of science like medicine, genetics, biology, just to name a few, often don't really even use mathematical models to describe the underlying processes that are occuring, things just get too complex for us to deal with mathematically in many-body systems, but it's certainly still valid science to carry on measuring what we see and try to come up with theories about how nature works even if we can't write down an equation that describes what is fundamentally going on.

Of course most if not all sciences use math in one way or another to understand the measuring instruments being used or for statistical analysis or whatever, but it's not necessary to use math to discuss the concepts of science. Hence the whole market of books of "science for the layman". However, mathematical models, if possible to derive, are often the most succint way of describing natural phenomena, at least until the theory breaks down. Maxwell's equations are a beautiful example.

[VAXman(Admin)]

Originally Posted by jtmckinley

Also many branches of science like medicine,

ROTFLMFAO! Medicine a science!

Originally Posted by VAXman

ROTFLMFAO! Medicine a science!

It sure is VAX.....at least if experimentation is a vital part of Science. I've taken part in a few medical experiments and now that you all know that I hope the light bulb of understanding has just lit up and you're thinking:

Aha!! Now we understand......

[Bmithra]

Originally Posted by KeithieW

It sure is VAX.....at least if experimentation is a vital part of Science. I've taken part in a few medical experiments and now that you all know that I hope the light bulb of understanding has just lit up and you're thinking:

Aha!! Now we understand......

Aha! indeed.... Another vict..er, client of a MAD scientist..

[Rick and Roll]

Originally Posted by VAXman

ROTFLMFAO! Medicine a science!

??????????

If you don't know, don't belittle. It is indeed a science.

[VAXman(Admin)]

Originally Posted by Rick and Roll

??????????

If you don't know, don't belittle. It is indeed a science.

Medicine is no science... no more a science than alchemy. All that medical research to date has proven is how little they actually know and how much farther they need to go.

I'll consider it a science the day medicine treats the cause of disease and not its symptoms.

[Rick and Roll]

Originally Posted by VAXman

Medicine is no science... no more a science than alchemy. All that medical research to date has proven is how little they actually know and how much farther they need to go.

I'll consider it a science the day medicine treats the cause of disease and not its symptoms.

Alchemy relates to a spiritual element. Medicine relates to the science of many things..disease treatment, causes, healing.

This is not religion vs science. Medicine is no religion. It is science.

Your opinion of the effectiveness of Medicine is no reflection on it's rightful inclusion as Science.

The main reason we know so little is that we keep introducing new issues to the the species. While it is very difficult to keep up, it is undeniable that incredible strides have been made.

If I had my heart surgery or my skin cancer treated 15 years ago, I'd be awful shape because of the improvements in the SCIENCE.

[VAXman(Admin)]

Originally Posted by Rick and Roll

Alchemy relates to a spiritual element. Medicine relates to the science of many things..disease treatment, causes, healing.

This is not religion vs science. Medicine is no religion. It is science.

Your opinion of the effectiveness of Medicine is no reflection on it's rightful inclusion as Science.

The main reason we know so little is that we keep introducing new issues to the the species. While it is very difficult to keep up, it is undeniable that incredible strides have been made.

If I had my heart surgery or my skin cancer treated 15 years ago, I'd be awful shape because of the improvements in the SCIENCE.

...and a lifetime with renal failure/nephritis, diabetes, gout, hypertension, and mouthfulls of tablets and injections of potions hasn't cured anything... only treated the symptoms. My son had open heart surgery. It fixed the symptoms of the problem but not its causes. My wife suffers from seisures. They're poison her with potions pretending to have a f*ing clue what they are doing but they don't know. They take tracings of electrical fields produced from the brain. BFD... they can't read her thoughts from them nor deduce what these signals ACTUALLY represent.

Watson and Crick decoded the chemisty of DNA but do we really know what the pairings of guanine, adenine, thymine and cytosine mean? No. They're busy splicing genes together in the laboratory now hoping to discover what will be produced like a kid randomly mixing the chemicals from a chemisty set without a clue as to the chemical process. When there's a theory that can predict the outcome, then it will be science. The day the can tell us that the sequence of say, cytosine+adenine+thymine will produce a cat ( ), then we have science.

What irks me about medicine is that the don't know anything and for that privilege, they command big money. It's a freakin' gamble just as with the other "practiced" profession. The problem with this gambling is that it is just like Las Vegas... an empire built on the backs of losers -- or in this case, the unfortunates with medical issues.

Suffice to say, medicine is medicine... but not science.

Medicine and Science............

This is definitely one of those tweeners.

I agree that medicine treats symptoms NOT causes but the research that goes on to develop those treatments must surely be classed as science.

A dictionary definition I found for "SCIENCE" states:

science

noun

1 (Knowledge obtained from) the systematic study of the structure and behaviour of the physical world, especially by observing, measuring and experimenting, and the development of theories to describe the results of these activities

I think that this covers medical research as well.....so you can take it either way.

I understand what Martha is going through because I suffer from Temporal Lobe Epilepsy and I'm being treated by popping lots of pills that were developed in a laboratory and while the prescribing of said pills isn't scientific the development of them surely is.

Just my 2p worth.